How Structures & Systems Help You Effectively Run Your Business


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When you decide to purchase a restaurant franchise, you’re given a book on how to run it effectively. It breaks down how to approach marketing, handle finances, and run operations.

But when you’re an entrepreneur opening up your own business, no such book exists to guide you along the path to profit.

Today’s guest set out to write that playbook.

In this episode, I chat with Jeff Chastain, Founder and Business Transformation Coach at Admentus, Inc., about the lessons he learned from building a business and how he codified them into processes for other companies to follow.

He shares:

  • The mistakes made while building his first company
  • Why culture is so important to hiring well
  • How EOS can help companies stay on track
  • Why leading indicators are so important

Listen to Jeff’s podcast Building to Scale

For more episodes like this one, find us on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or our website .

Listening on a desktop & can’t see the links? Just search for Path to Profit in your favorite podcast player.

I took the process nature, the systemsnature of the IT mindset and said: okay, there's got to be a way to systematizeproces bill processes around an entrepreneurial business, the same wayas you would a franchise you're listening to pastor profit, apodcast looking at business growth from every angle, postle. If you're lookingto hear stories of success and failure, lessons learned from leaders that havegrown and scaled their businesses you've come with the right place. Let'sget into the show, welcome back to path to profits, I'myour host for today's episode, Stephen King, CEO of growth force and I'mjoined today by Jeff Chastaine, founder and business transformation coach atAmentis, Jeff Chestin. How are you doing today? Hey doing well thanks fortaking a few minutes out of time here, glad to talk well great to have you onthe show and I'm excited you know. I know you and I have talked a couple oftimes. I'm excited to have a great conversation about the mistakes thatyou learned when you shut down effect. For you know you have this rapidlygrowing Dallas faced it company and you know, from the external world yourgrowing top line, you're granting people you're, you know doing all thesuccessful things but you're as a typical ancher neur. You don't knowwhat you don't know and and now you've taken those lessons from that failureinto a successful, firm and you're going to talk about lessons and salesand marketing. I thrand finance the whole back office, so others can avoidthat. So before we begin tell a lessener s a little bit about yourbackground and what you are doing at a mentus these days. Do I appreciate itand yeah it's definitely. Unfortunately, the the stereotypical are stuty calentrepreneurial kind of story that I find way too often, but no I've beenactually doing consulting side now now moved into coaching for over fifteenyears now so kind of been in this solo be what you kill mode for quite a fewtimes kind of a stuff here, quite a bit of time, but my real mat fiore. Myjourney actually started over on the IT side like we were talking about, butmore in a fractional ct realm so fifteen years ago on said, leftCorporate America background and technology. So let's go be fractional Cto consulting work and, as you mentioned, did that for a number Oyears. But then two thousand and seven got with a business partner and we bothsaid Hey we're both experts in technology. Here we ought to build, gostart and I tea services for him and SP and got about three and a half years,and I, like I said, a lot of flood lessons, learned there and ended uphaving to close the doors purely for financial reasons, and that kind ofreally put me on my own journey at that point got back into consulting, butstill looking in and say: okay, why do the business owners, the entrepreneursthat I'm now coaching deal with these same kind of struggles? That honestly Idealt with myself in the IT services firm? What are we missing here in termsof there's got to be a better way to build an entrepreneur kind of breventbusiness, and that's really where I took the process nature the systemsnature of the it mindset and said: okay,...

...there's got to be a way to systematizeprose bill processes around an entrepreneurial business the same wayas you would a franchise, so you think of like the the McDonald's franchise orwhatever. Once you go, pay all your millions to get into a franchise. Thefirst thing they do is go. Give you a basically a plan, a book at that the isokay, here's, how you're going to build your business- and I say you're-probably right there with me. I don't know that opening a business anybodygave you the plan for here's, Sot, a Rondo, successful, CPA business andthat's what most entrepreneurs are really missing is to say: okay, I knowfinance, I know law, I know it. I don't know the rest of this stuff and andmost and most service business. Those people struck, companies, don't knowfinance, don't know law, don't know it right there, specialist in theirproduct, their service there their industry. But let's talk let let'sstart with the lessons, learn right: The mistakes, because I love sharingall the mistakes that I've made, because you know that if you could talkto your younger self, and would you know you would you would be so muchhappier now? So, let's talk to the younger sous, you know you had threeyears you burnt through some resources and through darts out a board to makedecisions right you know, am I saying that right tell us about exactly right.That's actually exactly the way I describe. It is just throwing dartsbecause so many times like I said we don't know what we don't know we're anexpert in our lane. So Hey we're an expert at the IT services delivery. Wedon't know anything about marketing. We brought in a handful of customers orbringing in custers on referral, but anybody that's been there a done thatbefore knows that referrals is nice, but it's not predictable or steady byany means. So we went out and hired a marketing firm that Hay their jobs inmarketing, so they marketed to us and they sold us, but it just turned outthat they didn't necessarily know the IT realm couldn't market us and more tothe point of on us. At that point we tried them. We didn't really buy intoit. We didn't buy that as a long term of strategy. We said: Hey a sixty days,ninety days, whatever it all as it's not an instantaneous result, so pullthe plug move on to the next kind of thing, and we did the same with thehiring perspective we tried to have outsource sales. Then we brought ininside sales and just tried things through darts and ideas, because wedidn't have the expert piece and if you do that for too long, one, it's just aincredible waste of time and a waste of financial resources, and we did it longenough that we burned through all of our our capital and that's really. Whatran into the end was that, okay, we just simply didn't, have the capital tokeep try and do things that we weren't buying into one strategic path for forlong enough to actually see any a real results for it. So here, in a couple ofthings that you know you your first, not knowing what the the data should beor having the date, I should say so now I not having any information to tellyou what success is and not knowing how long you need to invest in order to getthat success right. So after sixty days,... know, if you're not seeing an Roy.Let's try the next thing right: Yep, Yep, let's it's the entfernt, typicallyknown for our patients, put it that way so yeah! It's not a media results. Thenthe next thing around, especially when your early stage is trying to grasp it.Whatever you can to keep things moving and you just cash just king. So you gotyou, don't you can't come from a position of fear? You can't waste, youknow two more months and not get troy. So any other lessons. Besides, you knowthe how about the people side any issues on hiring and firing, because Iknow that is always a challenge holding on to people longer it's holding on,but it was even more on the hiring side for us at that point being early stage,because again we were trying to hire outside of our lane of expertise, sowe're going to go, hire a sales person here. What makes a good sales person?How do we know? What are we going to put? What process is what planes aregoing to put in place for that salesperson? To Be Successful? Wedidn't have anything so we literally hired somebody in said. You goeffectively, build your job, you go so up, says we don't we don't necessarilyknow how to do sales over here short of what we've been grasping yet you'reyou're the expert. You supposedly got history and the IT industry. You gofigure this out again wasted too much resources. We actually stuck with himfor quite a while, and it was a lot of the promises of hey next about to bebetter. It takes a long time to build a pipeline, etc, etc, and a year and ahalf into that- and there was still no significant deals like okay. This isnot working out and it was. It was a lot of factors on on both sides kind ofthing, but it was to me really looking at it. The biggest issue was okay.There was no system. There was no plan in place for doing sales. It wasliterally a throw it over the wall and say go run with this. Go figure thisout and that's never a great recipe for success when it comes to hiring apeople. So how do you fix? What's the strategy to turn that around and do itdifferently to me? It comes back to really having the plan in the systemkind of a thing in place that we've touched on a number of things. I'd becurious, what you see with other entrepreneurs, but it really comes downto saying: okay, knowing of Front people perspective. Obviously, how doyou identify the right people, as well as the right skills, kind of a thingfor your company and if you don't have a culture to find, if you don't have astrategy to fine, if you don't have skills to find right, there then againyou're throwing darts guessing at okay. Maybe this person might fit justbecause in sales they're good at selling you on stuff. So unless youreally got a plan going into this to me, it's always a case of hiring slower it.It's the same, hire slow, parapa kind of a thing. There you've got to takeyour time and really make sure you got that right fit because from a personnelperspective I was say you probably know the finance is better than I do.Payroll is always one of your biggest expenditures on on any kind of companyright there. So if you're going to put out that kind of resources on Pay Roll,actually you get it right. I can say...

...definitively that for our targetaudience, which is service businesses and non profits. Payroll is the numberone expense by definition, and so you just you starting number one. What I'mhearing you say is you need the people plan, the Human Capital Management Planand identifying you know the right: it's not just the right skills, but thebehaviors right that will be successful in the position. I love that you talkedabout culture and starting. There talked more about culture and missionand vision. Why is that so important? It's I look at it and say: Okay, ifyou're a a green technology, firm, a great energy firm here and you go hiresomebody that is completely anti against green, that they don't sharethat same belief and you try to bring them into your culture they're notgoing to have that kind of by in there that you want. I always describe it askind of a game of tenter. You want everybody pulling on the rope in thesame direction if you've got this spider web effect, where everybody'spulling different directions, you're wasting your resources there, so youwant everybody to really be bought in, and then we were talking offline kindof thing as a small business, you simply don't have. Unless you got aventure capital or someone saying amount of money laying around you,don't have the money to go, hire cock to your true at our kind of client orhelp. So what you need in order to still attract those people is to havean attractive culture and attractive vision. Attacktin. I refer to it as thepinnacle to say: Okay, what's The pinnacle of our mountain that we'retrying to go a man that will get people excited and want to join in with you,even if you can't necessarily afford to pay them top dollar salary right there.So having that kind of strategy, that kind of vision to say, Hey, we're nothere just to be another, it company we've actually got a true vision forwhat we're trying to build here, and we want you to become be part of that.That'll get people excited and get people to come on board and hopefullystay excited with you, because they can see how they're contributing towardsthat moving forward, rather than just being there for a paint check, becausesomebody's always going to come along and I offering five bucks more an houror whatever the case may be right there. I have had success even recently havingpeople take twenty five thousand dollars less for quality of life forwork, life balance for for peace of mind. I agree with you so much. I thinkthis is where you start okay, so you understand who the right people areright. Is there do you do any talent assessments? How do you measure thatyou got the right person in the right seat? L I've actually pulled in it'sone. It's a case of knowing what the the right person is kind of a thing. Soyou've actually got to know what your culture is. You got to know what yourcore values are, so that you've got a measuring stick against that. I seepeople businesses every time going with their their interviewer employer viewsand it's just fo fluffy questions kind of a status like now. We need to reallyunderstand here and for that matter both parties need to understand whatthe measuring stick is. What the what the bench marks, what the performanceindicators are for success in this role, so that I know what I'm workingforwards. I know that what I'm living up to this was actually one of thebiggest reasons I left corporate...

America fifteen plus years ago- wasthat I'm just sitting here at a desk every day, W W? What is what I'mworking around right now really matter in the bigger picture? How does whatI'm working on fit in and if they don't understand that, then one they're goingto pick whatever task that they find most enjoyable or fun they're, notnecessarily going to be working on. What's your critical path, core pathright here and they're, really not going to know what they're workingtowards in terms of a measuring stick, so you really got to have that definedfirst to then have the right people fit that so that everybody understands evenday one. Let's say I know you're an EOS fan there. You got that strategic planright there of the the fifteen year goal the the five year mile stone theone year planned the ninety day, but I actually recommend to a business owner.That's part of the interview process pull that sucker out explain. This iswhat we're doing this is where we're going. Okay, so dig into that, I am sohappy. I was just thinking as you were describing is like. Oh, we got to talkabout the VTOL. Ta summarizes kind of what the vision traction. Organizer is.It's all part of the EOS, the entrepreneur organizing system, Gino,Whitman wrote a book called Traction that I highly recommend and Jeff you'retalking about the kind of two page business plan right. How do you usethat? Let's talk about? What is it first? What are all the components, andthen how does that relate to your people plan? I'm? Actually my practiceis industry as system agnostic. US is one of the ones. I I love the tools Idraw from it a lot, but so I'm actually sitting here trying to recall the theexact structure of the bet in mind, but still it starts out for the mainconcept there is that we've got this long term picture this long term goal.So I would quite go back to Microsoft. Is We're both technology people back toMicrosoft in the the S S in time frame their big goal at that point was thatwe're going to put a desktop on every in every office in every home inAmerica and at that point sounded absolutely ridiculous. Today, we'resitting here looking at two and three on our desk at a time, but the the ideais that you've got this still fuzzy goal out there, ten to fifteen years,that this is what we're aiming for. This is what gets everybody excitedabout this thing? This is what gets everybody to buy into, but the key toit is it's not a detailed, specific, concrete plan, ten to fifteen years out,it's just A. I refer to it as a pinnacle of the mountain. This is wherewe're trying to get to some days. That may be a little bit more cloudy thanothers, but this is where we're trying to get to, and then we start backingthat back in from a planning perspective to say: Okay, if that's tento fifteen years out, where do we need to be in the next three to five yearsin order to say that we're on the right course we're on the right path, up themountain to reach that pinnacle and then bring that back again to say: Okaybased upon three to five? Where do we need to be in the next year, and wheredo we need to be now in the next ninety days and as you get closer and closerin that's where those plans start getting more and more concrete, sowe've got specific goal: Specific Revenue Target Specificcustomerengagement targets, whatever...

...the case may be for our business to hitin this year, and we know okay down to the individual worker individualemployee. I know exactly where the project I'm working on today fits intoour year long strategic plan right here to get to their your goals. So I knowexactly: What's: criticall be working on versus what's a side project or whatmay not be part of this year. It's part of the longer term picture, but I haveto work on it, but I know exactly where the priorities are that way to whereagain, you get everybody bought in there, seeing the big picture,understanding exactly what they're working on and you just get theexcitement you get the buying at that point, that everybody's hey we're partof this thing working together and moving forward yeah. I love it the tovice on traction, organizer changed me and the way I kind of I think it helpsyou move from being an entrepreneur to being a strategic leader to being achief executive officer. It's out of mission, your vision and your corevalues on one page, with a ten year target a three year target and just asummary of your core market, and the second page is where all the rocks areright. That's got a the one. Your plan in the rocks talk a little bit about.You know how you use those rocks to cascade down to the rest of theorganization to make everybody to make sure that everybody's focused on thebig stuff. All the rocks are just simply projects that there there what'swith the work, that's got to get done here to reach whatever the mouse tonewe're hitting the one year or the three or five year kind of a thing. This isthe rock to say: Hey we're going to over overhaul the the sales process aregoing to overhaul our marketing and ad new campaigns here, we're going toupdate our finance system, migrates the noes version of quick books or whateverthe case may be it's a bigger project here, but the key around these to mereally a couple different things. One is making sure that there's key thatthere's definition around the project. It's not just a case of hey we're goingto update the website. Okay, is that done or not done? Is It on track or nottime? We don't know. We've got to have specific box around this project. Okay,we're going to accomplish a BANC here, there's going to be certain metric,certain measurements, everybody knows exactly what this project entails. Thesecond part of it is there needs to be a plan within that rock to say thatokay, we've got transparency that every week in our weekly tachic meeting, wesit there and say update okay, our is our rock on track or off track here,because that one gives accountability. People outside know that okay, are wetruly making progress because we all know going back to our grade schooldays or whatever, when the the reports not do for six weeks, we're not goingto do a thing about it today we're going to wait until the night beforebefore we start working on it. This kind of exponential curve, andunfortunately most of us didn't outgrow that when we moved into the corporatewe're older o the business were on. We still wait until the last minute forproject. So it's by having that kind of accountability to component to the rockwere helping almost build. These smaller little spikes of activity foron a weekly basis were having a report to the team to say. Okay, this is wherethis is, and the last little part of it... be is almost on the reverse thatI've seen cases before where you'll have two different areas. The companywith different rocks so you'll have a sales team rock that we're going toincrease we're going to decrease the ship time for orders, we're going toget all of ninety percent of orders out overnight. At the same time, theWarehouse Management Team, as a rock to say, okay, we need to reduce costs toreduce overhead, so we're going to reduce the amount of inventory we keepon hand and if you don't have the transparency there within the companywithin the leadership team to say. Okay, these two rocks are completelydiametrically opposed your waist to get fort again, one orboth of those teams is going to fail. So it's really giving you that cleardefinition around the project showing you okay, is the project moving forward,giving you that kind of transparency and then also giving you thetransparency in between projects overall for the company yeah. It alsoallows you to do better performance management right. The you know, absenceof clear Britan goals means resentment later, so I love that. So, let's talkabout how you went. How do you go from throwing darts to make decisions todata driven decision so like what Kapes and dashboards are you looking at salesis obviously the number one thing you guys struggled with. What do you do now?You know to help businesses avoid that problem of hiring somebody based onhope and your gut and then to be actually make a a decision. You canmeasure success for and it's a lot of what it's like, I'm working with a alawyer right now he's so lo practitioner left a larger firm to gostrike out on his own kind of a thing two years ago. I believe it now was and the the unfortunate reality of mostentrepreneurs kind of a thing here. As we decide hey, we can go jump out ofour own and what we end up being is the owner of the worker and the Jandersworking sixty to eighty hour weeks and that's kind of where he's found himselfinto between actually doing the practice. Doing theillegal were goingout and networking for new business running to the bank, to deposit checks,etc, kind of a thing. So what we're working with with him is starting offwith that longer term strategy, that B to kind of idea to say: okay, where arewe trying to go? Make sure we got a plan here beyond just where today isand then the second part is really starting to look at okay. Where are youspending your time because most entrepreneurs honestly don't know wherethey're spending their time they get to the end of the day, say: okay, this wasa full day same time. I have absolutely no ideawhat I really accomplished or what I really did. So we go through a processfrom a a process standpoint, a a documentation standpoint, so, okayidentify everything, you're working on identify those fifty or sixty hats,effectively that you're wearing and then, let's figure out, okay, whichones are the ones that honestly, you don't like spending time doing andyou're not really good at in the first place, and those are the first redbullet points right there to say: okay, this is who we need to delegate. Thisis who we need to hire because a lot of people times, people just simply don'teven know who to hire in the first... is it sales of marketing? Is ita book keeper? Is it? What is it kind of a thing there? So this processreally walks through okay, saying okay, identify where you're spending the mosttime figure out the things that you're doing more than once, that therepeatable processes and figure out which ones you really don't like andyou're, really not good at and let's start offloading those. But the key andgoes back to my original story is you've got to start at least putting anoutline together of what that entails. What what? What are you doing to from a bookkeeping standpoint everyweek from a reporting standpoint every week, so that when that person, whenyou go higher, that assistant in you've effectively got rough outlines ofstricter ting procedures here that you can hand them and say, okay, this isthe way I've been doing it. Look at this ask me questions, bring yourexpertise to the table and make this process better. You don't necessarilyhave to follow every little line. Item that I do. I want you to make thisbetter, because, honestly, this is something I'm not good at the firstplace. This is just the way I've been doing it. You make it better, but thefact that you're hinting them at least the outline at first is what we didn'tdo with that sales person. We just said hey: We got a clue about this salesthing. Overall, you come in and figure it out. Yeah you write the jobdescription, create the quota, tell us what success is, and let us know if youneed anything because we're all busy working on the clients over hereexactly yeah exactly well. So I like this, so you know where you spend yourtime. We had this one page company score card to help figure out to havethere's only there's, only three delivers to profits right. Do you havea top line problem? So do you need to focus on driving sales to recapturepovich res, usually work something right now. Do you have it above theline problem? Meaning do you have timely kids or your pricing right,because Labor Cross should go in through the roof for to e below theline problem? Are you spending a lot of your time manually on stuff that can beautomated? So I like the fact that you that you start that there, because, ifyou have the data to so many people, have difficulty delegating I'm shockedby that, even in our own company. So what you don't like or you're, not goodat. I really like that, as I was rat there for sure, but ye your point. It'severy single role needs. Those kpis needs those metrics around it. Whereyou know, okay, what are you goin expectations? I? What do you? What?What? What are your sales, a marketing KPIS? What should listeners be lookingfor to be able to help get data to anticipate problems in the future? AndI think that's really the key right there, because so many people look athey, we're going to put kpis on the amount of money in the bank or theamount of revenues or stuff like that, it's like! No by the time you get tothat point and that light goes red. Your Song already at that point, you'vegot to have the leading indicators. You got to have the stuff on front so thatI know that. Okay, if we're not making the number of new leads into the pipeline this month in another month. After that, that means our sales targets aregoing to start missing, which means in another month after that means we'regoing to start having people in...

...operations sitting on their hands,because there's not enough orders to fulfil. So I've got that longer termvision. Right there to say: Hey things are starting to happen up here at thetop YEP leading indicator. So I know quickly early to we can address thatbefore in its all the way down to the the bottom line red indicator, saying abank accounts empty right now, because it at that point, so you got to startearly. You got to start looking at those up front and in some respects Iwould say their unique per business. Everybody is a little bit differentthere, but yeah it needs to be metrics of front about where, where are we interms of our league flow in terms of our income right there? We need to havemetrics around service delivery. Customer satisfaction things like that,because if we start seeing those start dimp, we know that okay, again, issuescoming down the pipe line, but we need to have, as many of those be leadingindicators, be something up front that we can use as an early indicator offuture problems, not a indicator of a problem right now, y yeah. I think itmakes sense. I guess the the specifics on that. You know you got to figure outwhat causes sales right working backwards from the bottom of the funnelup. The final describe how that works because her it yeah I was like youliterally got a ride now. That's that's always interesting from the financialpeople perspective, because you're effectively looking right up thatfunnel right there, and it's really that key to say: okay, starting fromyour goal, a a converted sale, a product out the door, whatever youryour conversion event is start backing that back up and saying: okay, if we'renot seeing enough products shipped out the door, that's too late. What needsto happen before that? That might start indicating that and start steppingthose back. So yet, if you're looking at products out the door, okay, is itat issue with sale, as you mentioned that earlier to say? Is it just becausewe don't have enough sales, or is there a problem with order from Filmi? Well,okay, we do have enough sales. So, okay, is that now a problem in marketing'sround? Do we not have enough lead flow? Are we investing in the wrong campaigns,the wrong sources, kind of a thing there and you just start backing thatback up step my step, but it's got to be those earlier components. Thoseearlier pieces there to say: Okay long before we ever hit the bank accountlong before we ever hit slow order season. We need to know why was up thecase why we did did marketing facebook, changing algorithm kind of a thing andall of a sudden, our facebook ads dropped off. We need to on tat up frontliterally Google did that they changed their Alcor thm last month to make agreat, ok, much greater waiting for I for phone based, so so so so this allsounds complicated and expensive. So you know: How do you do it? I talk.What's the what's the steps? What's the first thing, you should do if you'retrying to get take the eyes and dash boys to look at you know if yourmarketing numbers are down, it's a leading indicator to customer journeysang two things on it. First, I always love going back to the Alberdin. Signquote: Make everything simple we over complicate this thing. We make it toocomplex and then most times at that point we give on say: okay, we can't dothis, but to your point, they're really in identifying those. I always workwith cut with clients with business...

...owners and Dashfort is a living thing.It's never. The first pass we make out of that thing will never almost neverbe your actual dash for it and even three months kind of a thing, so don'tput one a whole lot of time and effort into it simply because it will change.But what you do is you make a quick pass across that to say? Okay, if I'mjust going to knowing our business model, knowing our customer journeyhere. Let me pick out a couple, keep points that I think one we can trackaccurately and easily and to I think will tell me what we need to know andthen a month into this, let's go back and revisit. Okay. Is this reallyshowing me what I need to know and I really getting current accurate up todate- data because we might pick out a metric there that honestly there's verylittle way to actually measure or really get good data on and you'll kindof figure that out after the fact of saying yeah, we haven't updated this inthe last month because we don't know how or we don't have the data to updatethis. Maybe that's not the right metric or maybe we need to figure out a way tograb that datum more accurately. But it's things like that that you'll justkind of learn over time, picking out a dash for and pick out metric, is neversomething I've yet to see anybody get it perfect on the first pass. But ifthat way, no, I agree with you. It's a living organic thing and you know wesuggest it should work backwards from the decisions you're trying to make youknow because he and those decisions, change and all of a sudden. If you gotto make a new decision, should I sponsor a trade, show the data you wantto look at it's going to be based on the drivers of that decision, so I JeffI'm Mala completely aligned with there. So what other things? What other thingsin you know in your playbook of trying to help ye on a business? You know whatare the things that people need to know what else have we talked about in ourlast moments here? We honestly, I think, we've covered it all, because that'sthat's really. The four things I typically look at of what I refer to isfor pillars for business is looking at your people's strategy, the rightpeople, the right seats, looking at your overall purpose again of havingthe strategy having the core values, everything in place, having theplaybook. So again, that's where the delegation comes into where I can trulytake this process. This hat off my off of me handed to somebody else and thennot micromanage, because again I now have the performance side. I have theindicators I have the dashboard to know is that Pris that playbook? Is thattask on track or off track without having to come down and ask you? Soit's really to me putting those four pieces together and again going back tothe idea of just literally keeping it simple keeping it basic. You don't needto over complicate this thing, always talk about people about building thethe plane book, building the process documents because they always getbombed down on that really fast. It's like literally keep it simple. Youdon't need a six inch thick sp manon, because one you're never going to readit to that or you're never going to write it into they're, never going toread it kind of a thing just keep at high level and built on this. It's aneditore process. Business doesn't happen overnight. We've got a build onthis and keep working over time, but just start somewhere and just start atthat point help me visualize that you and I know what it's not right. It'snot a three ring binder sitting on a shelf. You know, is this a one noteshared is this? Has the company the...

...leadership collaborate and you knowwhat does it look like on our weekly daily weekly monthly basis? I'm missingthat part, because I think I get the whole rest. Well, it's I think,actually there's two parts or two pieces of what you're saying there, butfrom a a technology perspective I rarely enforce. Technology is okay. Howare we going to document sop to me? It needs to be. It does need to beelectronic these days since we're just we're dealing with distributed, omenthings like that. We're no longer sitting in office for that part, and itneeds to be up there and accessible for everybody, so whether it's a sharepoint kind of cms type site with a simple word document and drop box.Whatever the case may be, it's there and accessible for people to say. Okay,I know I need to go. Do the voteen or whatever update this this month, I needto go out Ben through receipts. Here's the check list for the things I need todo, and I can quickly go find that I can quickly update it and show ahistory, a log whatever that it was updated so that cind of side fromtechnology short of saying it needs to be online and share. I don'tnecessarily ever put a specific platform around it because, honestly, Ithink everybody is different yeah and the idea is that you really wanteverybody buying into this. So it's got to be something that the team will willutilize it's collaborate. No, I totally get that well Jeff. This has beenreally great. Is there anything else that we missed any other messages thatyou lot of Shit leave us with now? It's really! It just goes back to the. Whatwe were talking about honestly is that to me as a business as a smallentrepreneurial business, you'll never be able to reach your goals, yourideals, either on even on the personal side of of being the business owner.Most of US didn't jump into business, saying hey! I want to work eight hoursa week that you're never going to be able to reach those goals either forthe business or the personal, without looking and putting really a structureand systems underneath the business is just it, it will never happen at thatpoint if you're constantly trying to do it by the seed, your pants and thatstructure. I really like you that for four pillars here, people first, whichyou know I love, throwing darts to make decisions about hiring people. That'snever heard it that way. I especially sales and marketing I've been theredone that. You know the challenge of not knowing what to look for or whenyou outsource, something that you don't think is a good court competence. Hehad to make sure it's going to be successful and not lose a lot of moneyalong the way, then being able to get to that purpose. That vision, theVision, traction organized and we share that in common helping have in one easyspot to be able to. You know, compete for talent and by you know, a liningthat pinnacle of the mountain I'm going to use that in my next company meetingyou get to align people and attract people with the energy who have thesame value, who share your vision and you can not have to pay the dollars.The big company would where they would suck the life blood out of them,because that's worth a lot of money. I love performance, of course, is numberthree. What is success because you know that's what I see a lot of peoplegetting frustrated with? They don't know what the expectations are andhaving that Dash Board as a living thing, I don't know changing everythree months. I don't know I hopefully... Clarence, don't want to do that, butthat's good, and if they want to reach out to you to learn about the play book,How will they reach you? Easiest thing is just at mentum: We've got everythingout there and then we've also got a a podcast ourselves is building to scalewhere we're talking about simply that building a more profitable and morescalable more sail business. So I always have to have any business ownersover there that interested in in that for their business, but it's justbuilding to Scalca Great Jeff Chap Stain. This has been a greatconversation thanks for sharing your lessons. Thanks for joining outside ofpath to profits and to the rest of you, we'll see you next time visit growth,forecome podcast for more helpful resources to help you find your ownpath to profits. Growth Force is a smart back officesolution that CEOS need for better financial management at their business,delivering a level of reliability, consistency and expertise that istypically reserved for mid market companies from advanced bookkeepingmanagement, accounting control and advisory services. Growth Forceprovides dedicated teams and cloud based technology that becomes a scaleBo solution for your business. You meet you where you are to learn more visit.Growth for Com you've been listening to Patterole, to ensure that you nevermiss an episode subscribe to the show in your favorite podcast player, ifyou're listening an apple, podcast, we'd love for you to give a quickgrating show just have the number of stars. You think the podcast deserves.Thank you so much for listening until next time. I.

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